Where does PSU go from here at DT?
It never ceases to amaze how quickly ones fortunes can change in this life. One second you can be sitting in the lap of luxury surrounded by what seems to be an unending supply of good fortunes and the next you are sitting there empty handed wondering what had happened. That very emotional spectrum could easily describe the current thought processes of the Penn State football staff after starting DT Abe Koroma went down with an ankle injury in Wednesday's scrimmage.
What had begun as what many believed to be a major source of strength for this Penn State team has quickly dissolved into a bevy of questions and concerns as they head into the season. Defensive tackles have been dropping at an alarming rate in Happy Valley.
This actually started last season when Tom McEowen, the first of the talented class of 2011 DTs to see action, tore an ACL. As McEowen worked and rehabbed his way back Penn State still appeared in great shape at Defensive Tackle as they still had Chris Baker, Phil Taylor, Abe Koroma, and Ollie Ogbu ready to battle in the trenches. McEowen's status has been up in the air as he only recently began some full contact work. But historically PSU players do not recover quickly from ACL injuries so one can't expect too much out of McEowen this season, especially early on.
Then came that fateful night of April 1 when the altercation between some football players and a few beer muscled students which led to the arrests of several players including Chris Baker. The conclusion of this sorry legal case has yet to be reached as of this writing, therefore placing Bakers status in limbo with the team. Baker has been practicing but Joe Paterno has not commented on Baker's (or Anthony Scirrotto's) availability at this point in time. Certainly from a team standpoint, Baker's presence is needed now. But the decision to play Baker or not involves more than football so no one really knows what Joe Paterno has planned for him. So basically right now Baker is a "definite maybe" for FIU.
Even with Baker's uncertain status everyone felt good about the Defensive Tackle position for the 2007 Penn State football team as the season approached. Then shortly into fall practice projected starter Phil Taylor injured his knee (the injury is generally described as a MCL sprain) and will likely be out until at least the Notre Dame game. That makes one starter down and two top reserves both questionable whether they will play at all during the first few weeks of the season. Trouble brewing perhaps?
Then in Wednesday's scrimmage Abe Koroma suffers some sort of ankle injury (specifics have not been learned as of this writing) that will certainly cost him a few weeks of action at the least...we hope.
Just like that Defensive Tackle has gone from a strength to a major question mark. The starters now are projected to be converted Defensive End Jared Odrick and Ollie Ogbu. Odrick is a big time talent and has the size for the position but not necessarily the bulk at this point in his career. Ogbu is a redshirt freshman who has never played a snap for Penn State. Behind those two inexperienced DTs question marks abound. The only remaining healthy Defensive Tackle for FIU is Chris Baker and we don't even know if he will play due to off field issues. Something needs to be done to address this.
So where does the coaching staff go from here? First of all they need to dial down the contact work for the remaining few DTs. Penn State is bordering on a full blown emergency and can't afford even the slightest hiccup amongst the Defensive Tackles until they start getting able bodies back. They certainly have to do some work in order to be prepared to play, but they just cannot take any unnecessary risks with the remaining healthy Defensive Tackles.
The staff also needs to move someone over so that they can go 2 deep at both Defensive Tackle spots. But who do they move? Moving a freshman like Chimaeze Okoli or even less likely a Josh Marks probably shouldn't happen as they are true freshmen going through their first college football experience. Their football world is flying right before their eyes as it is anyway and a position move at this point would probably be counterproductive. Devon Still,with his impressive size and strength, would have possibly been considered for a move like this but of course he too was felled by the injury bug.
So more than likely a player along the lines of Mike Lucian will be moved back over to the defensive side of the ball to provide some depth. Lucian is a solid candidate as he is an upperclassman and he has played Defensive Tackle for Penn State earlier in his career. Don't discount the notion that he has "paid his dues" at PSU and that Joe Paterno loves that about upperclassmen. That alone might put him at the front of the line to fill in at DT. Lucian won't make anyone forget about Jay Alford, but at the same time he wouldn't be worse than Steve Roach. Lucian has reportedly gotten bigger over the past year and is now in the 290 lb range. He would be big enough to give the Lions 15-20 snaps a game if necessary in order to give the starters a breather until the injured players begin filtering back into the lineup.
Finally, the defensive brain trust needs to schematically assist the young and inexperienced Defensive Tackles. Actually they need to help the entire Defensive Line, as aside from Josh Gaines everyone across the defensive front is a freshman or sophomore. Tom Bradley and Co need to be creative in their use of their experienced Linebackers and Secondary in order to take as much heat off as possible from the green front four. That should include blitzing from many different angles. Blitzing has certainly been a fairly vanilla concept at PSU over the years, but with what many consider the top "lock down" CB in the nation in Justin King, another big time CB in A.J. Wallace, a ball hawking Safety in Anthony Scirrotto (assuming he plays), and another solid and experienced Defensive Back in Tony Davis, there is plenty of experience in the secondary therefore they shouldn't need much help. With a strong secondary at Tom Bradley's disposal, the stellar Penn State Linebacker Corps should be free to assist the young guns up front.
In addition to more blitzing it certainly should be an option to utilize some of the 3-4 scheme. Penn State has more Defensive Ends currently than Defensive Tackles and obviously has more Linebackers than you can shake a stick at. In prior years, Tom Bradley's blitz scheme included a lot of zone blitzing while playing zone coverage behind it. This means PSU would have to put an athletic DE who could drop in coverage or a LB who can hold the point of attack on the line of scrimmage but yet be asked to drop in coverage. Guys like Aaron Maybin, Jerome Hayes, or maybe even Maurice Evans could potentially fit that bill. Jared Odrick, even at 295 lbs, probably could play a 3-4 DE role if needed. Josh Gaines could as well. The 3-4 DE has to be strong because he will be lined up head up or even inside the Tight End on the strong side. A big key if the staff decided to try out a 3-4 set would be who would be that space eating Nose Tackle. Could Baker or Ogbu fill that role until Taylor and/or Koroma returns?
The bottom line is that all is not lost just because the team has suffered a few injuries. Even with the significant losses that have taken place there is sufficient talent on the Penn State defense to succeed. But it is up to the defensive staff to put the right players in the right places at the right times and to provide them with the game plan that will maximize their strengths and hide their weaknesses. That is why they are paid the buck bucks. We will see soon enough if they earn it.
What had begun as what many believed to be a major source of strength for this Penn State team has quickly dissolved into a bevy of questions and concerns as they head into the season. Defensive tackles have been dropping at an alarming rate in Happy Valley.
This actually started last season when Tom McEowen, the first of the talented class of 2011 DTs to see action, tore an ACL. As McEowen worked and rehabbed his way back Penn State still appeared in great shape at Defensive Tackle as they still had Chris Baker, Phil Taylor, Abe Koroma, and Ollie Ogbu ready to battle in the trenches. McEowen's status has been up in the air as he only recently began some full contact work. But historically PSU players do not recover quickly from ACL injuries so one can't expect too much out of McEowen this season, especially early on.
Then came that fateful night of April 1 when the altercation between some football players and a few beer muscled students which led to the arrests of several players including Chris Baker. The conclusion of this sorry legal case has yet to be reached as of this writing, therefore placing Bakers status in limbo with the team. Baker has been practicing but Joe Paterno has not commented on Baker's (or Anthony Scirrotto's) availability at this point in time. Certainly from a team standpoint, Baker's presence is needed now. But the decision to play Baker or not involves more than football so no one really knows what Joe Paterno has planned for him. So basically right now Baker is a "definite maybe" for FIU.
Even with Baker's uncertain status everyone felt good about the Defensive Tackle position for the 2007 Penn State football team as the season approached. Then shortly into fall practice projected starter Phil Taylor injured his knee (the injury is generally described as a MCL sprain) and will likely be out until at least the Notre Dame game. That makes one starter down and two top reserves both questionable whether they will play at all during the first few weeks of the season. Trouble brewing perhaps?
Then in Wednesday's scrimmage Abe Koroma suffers some sort of ankle injury (specifics have not been learned as of this writing) that will certainly cost him a few weeks of action at the least...we hope.
Just like that Defensive Tackle has gone from a strength to a major question mark. The starters now are projected to be converted Defensive End Jared Odrick and Ollie Ogbu. Odrick is a big time talent and has the size for the position but not necessarily the bulk at this point in his career. Ogbu is a redshirt freshman who has never played a snap for Penn State. Behind those two inexperienced DTs question marks abound. The only remaining healthy Defensive Tackle for FIU is Chris Baker and we don't even know if he will play due to off field issues. Something needs to be done to address this.
So where does the coaching staff go from here? First of all they need to dial down the contact work for the remaining few DTs. Penn State is bordering on a full blown emergency and can't afford even the slightest hiccup amongst the Defensive Tackles until they start getting able bodies back. They certainly have to do some work in order to be prepared to play, but they just cannot take any unnecessary risks with the remaining healthy Defensive Tackles.
The staff also needs to move someone over so that they can go 2 deep at both Defensive Tackle spots. But who do they move? Moving a freshman like Chimaeze Okoli or even less likely a Josh Marks probably shouldn't happen as they are true freshmen going through their first college football experience. Their football world is flying right before their eyes as it is anyway and a position move at this point would probably be counterproductive. Devon Still,with his impressive size and strength, would have possibly been considered for a move like this but of course he too was felled by the injury bug.
So more than likely a player along the lines of Mike Lucian will be moved back over to the defensive side of the ball to provide some depth. Lucian is a solid candidate as he is an upperclassman and he has played Defensive Tackle for Penn State earlier in his career. Don't discount the notion that he has "paid his dues" at PSU and that Joe Paterno loves that about upperclassmen. That alone might put him at the front of the line to fill in at DT. Lucian won't make anyone forget about Jay Alford, but at the same time he wouldn't be worse than Steve Roach. Lucian has reportedly gotten bigger over the past year and is now in the 290 lb range. He would be big enough to give the Lions 15-20 snaps a game if necessary in order to give the starters a breather until the injured players begin filtering back into the lineup.
Finally, the defensive brain trust needs to schematically assist the young and inexperienced Defensive Tackles. Actually they need to help the entire Defensive Line, as aside from Josh Gaines everyone across the defensive front is a freshman or sophomore. Tom Bradley and Co need to be creative in their use of their experienced Linebackers and Secondary in order to take as much heat off as possible from the green front four. That should include blitzing from many different angles. Blitzing has certainly been a fairly vanilla concept at PSU over the years, but with what many consider the top "lock down" CB in the nation in Justin King, another big time CB in A.J. Wallace, a ball hawking Safety in Anthony Scirrotto (assuming he plays), and another solid and experienced Defensive Back in Tony Davis, there is plenty of experience in the secondary therefore they shouldn't need much help. With a strong secondary at Tom Bradley's disposal, the stellar Penn State Linebacker Corps should be free to assist the young guns up front.
In addition to more blitzing it certainly should be an option to utilize some of the 3-4 scheme. Penn State has more Defensive Ends currently than Defensive Tackles and obviously has more Linebackers than you can shake a stick at. In prior years, Tom Bradley's blitz scheme included a lot of zone blitzing while playing zone coverage behind it. This means PSU would have to put an athletic DE who could drop in coverage or a LB who can hold the point of attack on the line of scrimmage but yet be asked to drop in coverage. Guys like Aaron Maybin, Jerome Hayes, or maybe even Maurice Evans could potentially fit that bill. Jared Odrick, even at 295 lbs, probably could play a 3-4 DE role if needed. Josh Gaines could as well. The 3-4 DE has to be strong because he will be lined up head up or even inside the Tight End on the strong side. A big key if the staff decided to try out a 3-4 set would be who would be that space eating Nose Tackle. Could Baker or Ogbu fill that role until Taylor and/or Koroma returns?
The bottom line is that all is not lost just because the team has suffered a few injuries. Even with the significant losses that have taken place there is sufficient talent on the Penn State defense to succeed. But it is up to the defensive staff to put the right players in the right places at the right times and to provide them with the game plan that will maximize their strengths and hide their weaknesses. That is why they are paid the buck bucks. We will see soon enough if they earn it.
Excellent summary HS.
With as thin as we are on the DT spot now, one would think that LJ should be very liberal with subs to keep the 3 "regulars" fresh.
We can't run Odrick and Ogbu into submission by not trusting the guys...Lucian makes sense and with him and Baker it gives Bradley/LJ a viable 4 man rotation.
I personally would prefer a 5 man rotation, but I think we could get away with a 4 man for a few weeks, as long as you said...get creative with the scheme and blitz/zone blitz packages.
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People who think we're going to dominate Notre Dame with our defense are kidding themselves. ND has a veteran interior o-line, and a power RB.
Even if Ogbu and Odrick have the physical strength to hold their ground against the Domers, they won't have the gas to make it 4 quarters. PSU needs Baker back against Notre Dame or it's going to be a much more difficult game than we imagined.
And if we have any shot at being Michigan, Taylor needs to be 100%.
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PBR,
That's precisely why Joe needs to let our offense play. We need to put points on the board and dictate tempo. A close game that consists of running by both teams will end up being a battle of attrition. I think we win either way, though.
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What the D-line doesn't need, if it is thin, is the offense to be scoring in 2-3 minute drives. The 1994 defense was on the field all the time with that explosive offense. Time consuming drives will let the d rest.
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A quick-scoring offense shouldn't be feared. You might recall that the 94 team was not defeated. If the defense is gassed, that's ok by me - as long as they are not giving up quick scores.
We'll have to wait before we can begin to expect 94-like offensive production anyway. Let's not get ahead of ourselves.
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I expect Joe to grind it out and control the clock against FIU in order to keep our defense off the field. Look for a TOP to be firmly in psu's advantage.
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What the real status with Tommy McEowen ? I've read that he "participated" (don't know if this was one play or the entire thing) scrimmage a few days ago. Seems optimistic like a quick recovery to me, but it begs the question if he's ready to play for us ? Maybe by ND ?
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a very reliable poster on FOS said that we are 4 deep at tackle right now meaning that Tommy Mc is ready to go for FIU. He also expect Taylor to be back for Notre Dame.
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I'll be a little shocked if Tom plays before game 4.
PSU historically is very cautious with players coming off injury (see Poz for example, knee was 100%, but they had him in a pretty sturdy brace for a good portion of the early season).
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I bet you a dollar that Tom plays vs. FIU.
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Look, we need our best players on the field to win games, period. There has been talk about rotation, four man, five man, all sorts of scenarios, even the 3-4 possibility.
This last post on the d-line is the BEST post I have seen on ANY message board at ANY website, including the BWI McAndrew AND F.O.S.
This is the only place that gives it to ya straight, and tells you what the others either won't or can't.
Notice how everything is a guess with the other sites, and notice how they aren't even TALKING about Taylor's injury. Is Big Phil playing this year?
They won't say. Is Big Phil injured?
They won't say. Is Big Phil going to become a rap star? They WON'T SAY!
No verification from behind the IRON WALL. THE WALL KNOWS NO FRIENDS, THE WALL HATES THE MEDIA. THE WALL HATES OUTSIDERS. THE WALL NEEDS TO COME DOWN.
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what was so profound in the last post?
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Do people realize that it is possible that the player doesn't want all the information released? Under HIPPA their injury information is not released unless they give their consent.
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You mean "HIPAA"?
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"Just like that Defensive Tackle has gone from a strength to a major question mark."
Who said it was a strength? Maybe depth wise it was a strength, but the reality is nobody really knows how Taylor, Koroma, Ogbu, McEowen, Odrick, Baker, etc. will stack up on game day. Many of us (myself included) *think* they'll be good but a "strength"? LBers? Check. DBs? Check. WRs? Check. DL???...I'll have to see it to believe it.
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I think he meant as a strength as in, we had 6 legitimate kids there. All talented, all young though.
Strength in numbers. Of that 6, the odds are pretty good that 2 or so will turn out to be very good to great.
Now we're down to 3...the strength (in terms of numbers) is now a question mark as we're not exactly known for DT rotation, and with only 3 real DT's we must move 1 person to make a 4 man rotation.
I do not think we'll see TMac against FIU for the simple reason that he won't be needed...Taylor and TMac probably will see time against ND, and maybe take a week off against Buffalo.
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to laschout insiders:
what is the latest you hear on Phil Taylor? many say that laschout is saying he will be there for ND and others say Michigan. I imagine if it was major a la Koroma you would have seen more coverage in "real" media. Most simply say he was dinged up
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Laschout anticipates that Phil should be cleared to play for ND game. While there are not expected to be any issues, we can't predict whether there will be any setbacks in the recovery, or if ready to go, how much one could anticipate Big Phil to play. Keep in mind that if medically cleared during week of ND game, conditioning will be a factor. Stay tuned.
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thanks, im curious who you feel the 4-5 deep will be at DT for the Notre Dame game?
I'm thinking Ogbu/Odrick/Taylor/Baker/Tom Mac / Okoli if needed
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As the original article states, look for someone like Mike Lucian to be moved for depth. Having prior experience on DL, he would be more of an option than Okoli IMO.
As for Tommy Mac, he began "live work" this week. He will be available for ND, but the question is how much will he be able to contribute, and how much will he be allowed. Tommy busted his tail in getting to this point, I would be surprised if he didn't see some snaps in ND game.
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At the scrimmage Tom was in for around 17 plays. He will be ready when needed.
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i apologize for my ignorance but has Chris Baker been practicing and if so, has he been limited due to his off field issues? I guess, same for AS. I think if Baker plays vs ND PSU will be just fine. He is big, athletic and would definitely be enough to withstand the losses of big Abe and possibly Phil T.
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I would suspect the injuries are forcing Joe's hand on this.
Under normal circumstances Baker probably would sit...and also considering Scirrotto's charges (well most of them) have been dismissed, could be Joe thinking that Bakers will as well.
I also think that Phil will play against ND, and maybe take the next week off to essentially give him and McEowen a bye week to assist in the healing process for the Big Ten season.
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Too bad there wasn't more depth on the OL at center..would consider moving AQ Shipley back to DT.
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You would move a potential AA and pre-season All-BT performer to other side of ball? No need for knee jerk reactions, we'll be fine.
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If it would benefit the team, I'd move anybody anywhere... the hell with honors. The game is about the team, not individual awards. Isn't that why AQ moved to OL in the 1st place? To benefit the team ?
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ha why don't we move Shaw and AQ....? that might work
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Taylor's ready, will he play against FIU?? Dunno
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ready for what? Did you hear he is healthy?
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To play.
Good to go.
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so you've heard he's ready for FIU? thats good news if true
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according to the depth chart, baker and odrick are starting with ogbu and taylor backing them up. are we to assume baker is playing and taylor is healthy enough? Looks like everybody can step back from the ledge as we are 4 deep...
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