You Would Think That Holding an Opponent to 17pts or Less is a Good Thing...

You Would Think That Holding an Opponent to 17pts or Less is a Good Thing...and it is, but not so much at PSU.  Listed below is the record of other teams when they hold an opponent to 17pts or less.  (This research provided to by a loyal reader and poster.)  Data is from the 2000-2006 seasons. Data does not include 2007 season as of now.

Indiana: 7-0
Iowa: 33-2
Illinois: 15-2
Northwestern: 17-1
Ohio State: 52-3
Penn State: 27-11
Wisconsin: 34-2
Michigan: 39-2
Michigan State: 20-5
Minnesota: 30-0
Purdue: 28-6

Florida: 45-1
Auburn: 46-3
Alabama: 43-5
Georgia: 52-4
Tennessee: 38-4
LSU: 52-4

Cal: 28-2
USC: 40-3
Oregon: 31-2
Navy: 19-3
Notre Dame: 32-3
Nebraska: 45-1
Oklahoma: 56-2
Texas: 50-1
WVU: 31-2

BC: 41-4
Clemson: 35-5
Florida State: 42-4
Ga Tech: 37-6
Miami: 52-8
Virginia: 33-3
Va Tech: 49-2

Iowa State: 25-3
Vanderbilt: 9-6
Arizona: 18-5
Rice: 15-1
Temple: 11-4
Duke: 7-4
Syracuse: 25-6
Pitt: 32-4

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  • 9/25/2007 2:20 PM We Are...Penn State email list wrote:
    At least we're better than Vanderbilt!

    Can you please tell us the start date of this study? Thanks.
    Reply to this
    1. 9/25/2007 2:24 PM fp wrote:
      Data is from the 2000-2006 seasons.
      Reply to this
      1. 9/26/2007 2:15 AM Run Up The Score wrote:
        fp and others -- Can you give us some indication of what the mood is within the program this week? Are the coaches and players sandbagging each other? Coaches vs. coaches? What's the general sentiment surrounding the job security of Morelli, Scott, and some of the OL like Cadogan (who had a terrible game) and Landolt? What's up with Chris Bell being forever banished to the sidelines?

        I don't mean to nag because I appreciate what you guys do, but this is the type of stuff people want from your site. What's happening within the program?
        Reply to this
        1. 9/27/2007 7:29 AM psusnoop wrote:
          The mood is not that gloom and doom really. Everything that you read is taken to the very extreme this past week.
          The players are disappointed, but didn't accept this loss either. In years prevoius the team would be worried about where the party would be later, calling about and such, this team was a very silent ride home for them.
          Reply to this
  • 9/25/2007 2:23 PM Anonymous wrote:
    the phrase playing not to lose comes into play.

    I'd be curious as to the breakdown of home and away. I'd venture to say there's far more away losses than home.
    Reply to this
    1. 9/25/2007 2:35 PM Bigloss wrote:
      I wish we had a coach with an attitude like Herm Edwards.


      Why can't we play to win the game? Why??
      Reply to this
  • 9/25/2007 2:31 PM Rick Neuheisel wrote:
    Reply to this
  • 9/25/2007 2:46 PM smokeybandit wrote:
    Expanding on that.

    Including 2007, PSU is 62-13 in those game games since 1995.

    Do the math since 2000...ouch.

    Also, factoring in road games, PSU is 10-7 since 1995...and 2-7 since 2000. games when PSU is the one scoring 17 pts or less, PSU is 3-30 since 2000. 3-30! Those three wins have come in the past two seasons, too.
    Reply to this
  • 9/25/2007 2:53 PM smokeybandit wrote:
    Since 2000, PSU has averaged 18.9 ppg on the road!

    From 1995-1999, 27.6 ppg on the road
    Reply to this
  • 9/25/2007 3:08 PM NguFanatic wrote:
    You guys are all insane .. Everything is fine. Sue says so!
    Reply to this
  • 9/25/2007 3:15 PM Run Up The Score wrote:
    Holy crap. Nice find, guys.
    Reply to this
  • 9/25/2007 3:21 PM godfather wrote:
    Amazing how closely all of this "apocalyptically(sp) horrid" data on the offense correlates so tightly with Fredo's ascension to the thrown.

    Must be coincidental.

    20 games to go, then "Ding Dong, the Witch is Dead!"
    Reply to this
  • 9/25/2007 3:25 PM satan wrote:
    Thanks to the person who dug those stats up, really interesting stuff. You can't read that any way other than "we've had a trash offense for the past eight years."
    Reply to this
  • 9/25/2007 3:39 PM bfpsu wrote:
    Great find!! There is no more better indictment of the offense the last 7-8 years than that stat.
    Reply to this
  • 9/25/2007 3:42 PM bfpsu wrote:
    I think it also shows that Joe's belief that he can win with just enough offense is obsolete in this day and age.
    Reply to this
    1. 9/25/2007 4:22 PM PSULAXER wrote:
      OHMIGOD! Even Temple's percentage is better, and they can't beat the Little Sisters of the Poor!
      Reply to this
  • 9/25/2007 5:47 PM jabbba2 wrote:
    Joe treats every big game like is 1986 Miami. He doesn't care if the score is 14-9 or 17-10. Win or lose, thats an outstanding game to Joe.
    Reply to this
    1. 9/25/2007 5:52 PM jabbba2 wrote:
      Even during the OSU game in '05 they were only a play away from getting back in that the entire game. OSU came close to gaining momentum a few times but the pass rush saved us. The PSU offense also packed it in after the 1st drive in the 2nd half.
      Reply to this
      1. 9/25/2007 9:22 PM Cletus wrote:
        PSU defense literally almost played a perfect game against OSU. The gifted PSU 1st TD with Lowry's interception return to inside the 5 yard line. The defense won the battle of field position by constantly holding OSU to 3 and outs. And in the 4th quarter they came up with big play after big play, culminating in the game winning sack/fumble recovery. JoePa's problem is that with his gameplan's it literally takes a near perfect perfomance to win a game against a quality opponent.
        Reply to this
        1. 9/26/2007 11:34 AM Run Up The Score wrote:
          Great points, every one of them...and this current team is absolutely incapable of playing a perfect game.
          Reply to this
  • 9/25/2007 9:18 PM sc wrote:
    what is the stat from 2005 on when the "dark years" ended?
    Reply to this
  • 9/25/2007 9:33 PM sc wrote:
    do the staff members of laschout thinkt hey know more than joe paterno? it seems like you have all the answers. if you are so knowledgeable why are you running a blog and not coaching? surely joe knows something if he won over 360 games.
    Reply to this
    1. 9/25/2007 10:50 PM Lions wrote:
      You've just been presented with some hard facts and that's the best response you can come up with? Attacking Laschout for noting an undeniable trend?

      Please, if you're going to offer a counter to what's been presented, try bringing your "A" game next time.
      Reply to this
    2. 9/25/2007 10:52 PM Milehi wrote:
      You think football is rocket science or what?

      Here's some things I KNOW I would NOT HAVE DONE:
      a) run first play
      b) run fb second play
      c) call a 15 yard pass on 3rd and 10 from the 31 when you know you are going to punt from the 31
      d) PUNT FROM THE 31
      e) CONTINUE to play a soft zone allowing UM to convert 3rd down after 3rd down ALL DAY LONG
      f) call long patterns in the so-called 2 minute drill when UM was bringing 5.
      g) would you like me to go on?????

      BTW, that may have been the worst 2 minute drill in the history of football.

      Joe and the staff will never win a NC. Never again
      Reply to this
    3. 9/26/2007 6:13 AM Chromehill wrote:
      Joe did not even know on Saturday how the challenge system worked. He did not know if he had a challenge left. I think Joe has forgotten a lot about football and is scared of his shadow.
      Reply to this
    4. 9/26/2007 9:52 PM LoveYaLions wrote:
      Joey Chestnut once ate something like 69 hotdogs in 10 minutes before. Does that mean he knows how to effectively eat a hot dog better than me??? Not sure. (That analogy might be pushing it, but I thought I would try)

      So because Joe has won over 360 games, does that automatically mean that his style and football smarts are superior to those who have less wins?? I think not
      Reply to this
  • 9/26/2007 2:48 AM Governator wrote:
    what kills me the most is that the staff seems to think that they're being innovative. the stupid draws right up the middle when morelli pivots one way and then hands off the other, the end-arounds, the draw play-action, the bubble screens copied from fat chuck weiss, etc. the repeated use of these same plays screams that the staff actually thinks they are useful and will work.

    however, the way our multiple wide receiver sets are designed is the ultimate show of stupidity. the point of bringing multiple wideouts in the game is to get fast guys the ball in space, but also to SPREAD THE FIELD and create natural creases for the running backs. then why do all of our purported "spread" sets often place 1 or more of our receivers in tight to the line? in effect, the staff is using deon butler's, 5'10", 170 pound frame in a tight end position. he's not going to do a whole lot of good blocking, and he sure isnt creating any spacing. if you watch closely, this is a consistent theme of our supposed "spread" looks.

    additionally, has this staff ever heard of basic route combinations to get people open??? does curl flat flag ring a bell? what about a dig with a post behind and a drag in front? curl wheel? smash? 15 yard hitches? flood off of a play action bootleg? arrows? sluggos? etc.

    the only routes i have seen are outs, short hitches, flat dumps to hahn, the bubble screen, RB screen, one dig to deon, the rare crosser, and the double play action pass that went to deon vs ND and norwood vs michy

    basically, no rhyme or reason to the pass game. one might think that with all the time jay spends on madden he would copy some of the route combos on the game, there are some real ones in there.
    Reply to this
    1. 9/26/2007 8:09 AM Anonymous wrote:
      There is no creativity in the play design or play calling. It's been that way for a long time.

      The slant was wide open the entire game. PSU not once went back to it after Morelli made a throw my 4 year old son would have been proud of.
      Reply to this
    2. 9/26/2007 1:07 PM Cletus wrote: forgot the most damning evidence of all on the passing game. How many times do you see 2 recievers within 5 yards of each other down the field. It must happen 4 or 5 times a game. Either the WR's have no clue what pass route they are running, or JayPa has no clue what pass routes he is calling.
      Reply to this
  • 9/26/2007 8:39 AM Nellyville wrote:
    Joe Pa said in his press conference that he thought Morelli played well and that this is where he expected them to be at this point. Did he expect to lose to Michigan? I guess he figured the odds were against him since he lost the last 8. Does Joe Pa even have expecatiions anymore? If Morelli played well, I'd hate to see what a bad game would be.
    Reply to this
  • 9/26/2007 9:14 AM pottsvillepsu wrote:
    The real kicker? If he had to do it again he'd play it the same way.
    Reply to this
  • 9/26/2007 2:53 PM sc wrote:
    how many teams have better records than psu since 2005?
    Reply to this
    1. 9/26/2007 3:04 PM sc wrote:
      i believe our record is 23-6 for a 79% winning %....please list all teams outperforming Joe's nittany lions on the field in the only statistic that matters - wins and losses. oh also 2 new years day bowl wins
      Reply to this
      1. 9/26/2007 3:18 PM Anonymous wrote:
        23-6 is pretty good.

        Blowout loss to ND (road)
        Loss to OSU (road)
        Loss to Wisconsin (road)
        Loss to Michigan (home)
        Loss to Michigan (road)

        In those losses, PSU was held to a TD or less against Wisconsin, Michigan (home), Michigan (road), OSU.

        Anyone can beat up on the blind sisters of the poor, but when you continuously struggle on the road, and consistently have problems scoring 1 TD, let alone 21-24 pts, you have issues that run deeper than a record.
        Reply to this
        1. 9/26/2007 4:25 PM sc wrote:
          you guys keep saying that anybody can beat that record. so tell me, how many teams have done it? how many teams have a better record than psu? i want some cold hard facts to defend your point. if its so easy to beat up on bad teams, then surely there would be more 23-6 teams. oh yeah, this factual argument doesn't backup your agenda. every team besides the MNC loses to good teams. if they didn't, there would always be multiple undefeated teams
          Reply to this
      2. 9/26/2007 4:26 PM PSULAXER wrote:
        To quote Robert Browning, which JoePa should find admirable, "Ah, but a man’s reach should exceed his grasp, Or what’s a heaven for?"

        Yes, the winning percentage says one thing (least we forget, our winning percentage so far this year features us beating up on 3 creampuffs); contending for a national championship says something totally different. Why do you suppose we're out-recruited by OSU, USC, UF, UM, etc.? We're salivating over the kid from Jeanette, who we need to impress to get him to commit to PSU, and we wow him with that awesome offensive performance against ND, followed up with the loss to UM. If I were him, I'd look elsewhere to showcase my talents, wouldn't you?

        Further, a lot of us read the same stories that detailed how the "maturation process" was over for this team, and PSU might be able to make a run to contend for the National Championship this year. Instead, we get beat by a team that makes history by losing to a I-AA team. After objectively examining the UM loss, I'm starting to believe the forecasters might be right when they said we'd go 9-3. I hope they're wrong, but my optimism is being tempered by reality.

        The rub is that this is a great program that could be better! Take a moment to look around the next time you're at Beaver Stadium for a game. We owe all that to Joe, and the sense of pride I have in being a PSU alum is due, in no small part, to what he accomplished over his coaching career. Joe took us from a sectional to a national presence, but it's time to for him to relinquish the reins, just like Rip Engel did for him back in 1965. Start the orderly transition so we don't miss a beat...please.
        Reply to this
      3. 9/28/2007 3:57 PM nttnylyon wrote:
        Just in our own conference:

        OSU 26-3

        Wisky 26-4

        Notable others:

        USC 26-3

        LSU 26-4

        FL 26-4

        Texas 27-3

        WVU 26-3

        So if you are comfortable being second tier, 23-6 is just fine. Given our resources and facilities, I expect more, and so should you.

        For what it is worth, NYD Bowls are not as prestigious as they once were when only the Rose, Sugar, Cotton, Fiesta and Orange Bowls were the limit. Citrus, Gator and Outback have all dilluted the honor.

        Other than 2005, when is the last time we previously went to one of the top 5 bowls? That answer alone tells you we are among California, Tennessee, Clemson and dare I say South Florida?
        Reply to this
  • 9/26/2007 4:37 PM sc wrote:
    why would I go to penn state if I'm an offensive player? here are some WR's playing every Sunday - joe j, engram, bryant johnson, eddie drummond
    RB's - kenny watson, larry johnson, i know there are more
    Reply to this
    1. 9/26/2007 4:46 PM PSULAXER wrote:
      You're right. But is that all you want; an honor roll of good players? I'd like a National Championship, wouldn't you? I can counter your argument about the (offensive) pleyers you mention by throwing out the names of a lot of other players that went to programs that dont even compare to PSU. Exceptions prove the rule.

      I'd like more than just OK.
      Reply to this
    2. 9/26/2007 7:18 PM smokeybandit wrote:
      Drummond-2002 (undrafted)
      Watson-2001 (undrafted)

      Yeah, they're just sending them to the NFL in droves.

      And in an argument about poor offensive mention Poz?
      Reply to this
  • 9/26/2007 4:53 PM sc wrote:
    psu developed how many first rounders in 2002 and 2005 - also poz and others - what they do in the nfl is not up to penn state - that is coaching in the nfl
    Reply to this
    1. 9/26/2007 10:37 PM MADDOGG wrote:
      That is an okay list of players in the NFL during that time period. I could come up with a much better list from other Great Division I programs. Most of those players had great talent and would have gone to the NFL no matter who coached them. If I were a top recruit, I would want to go to a school where I would be coached by a solid staff and be apart of a team that would be in the running for a national title every year, as well as give me a good chance to make it the NFL. I could easily list a dozen schools that would give a better opportunity than Penn State would at the present time. If we want to make that list of NFL players bigger and better and compete for a national championship we must get a new coaching staff. There is no way Pryor is coming to PSU after that showing last week. I appreciate everything Joe has done for the school and the football program, but until the Paternos get out of Happy Valley we are not going to smell a national championship! If you want to accept mediocrity, thats fine, but I know myself and the majority of other fans want us at the top and will not accept this program until we get there.
      Reply to this
      1. 9/27/2007 7:51 AM sc wrote:
        that list doesn't include kennedy, haynes, adams, lowry, hali, poz, hunt, gould, levi brown (not bad for a school that can't produce o-line) and in the coming years connor, king, lee, wallace, shipley - i forgot alford, ed johnson - thats not bad
        Reply to this
        1. 9/27/2007 9:23 AM MADDOGG wrote:
          Regardless of the list, I agree those are all very talented players that came through the program, but the real issue at hand is wins and losses. I would rather see National Championships or at least Big Ten Titles year in and year out. Players moving on to the NFL is just a bonus for me and that list would be a lot longer if we had a better team - coaching staff.
          Reply to this
  • 9/28/2007 8:51 AM jack66 wrote:
    37 road games since 2000. We've failed to score more than 14 points. in 21 of them. Even our usually good defenses need more than that.

    Our record? 1-20. For those who like to seperate our 4 losing seasons from the rest: 0-15 vs 1-6, if that makes you feel any better.
    Reply to this

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