Recruiting Juniors
What is an early start to recruiting? Most would answer that getting in on a kid early, is doing so in the spring of their junior year of high school. Like many things which are competitive in nature, the world of recruiting constantly evolves.
Most all people have heard the old adage that "The early bird gets the worm." USC already has verbal commitments from five of a perceived top 100 in 2009 recruiting class, and Ohio State already has 5 of their own pledges, with the possibility of adding at least one more before signing day of 2008. Verbals have also been received by other schools as well, and recruiting has become a year round process for most all coaching staffs.
Many coaches get in front of these blue chip prospects early on, and trying to develop a relationship with them. This at a time when their focus is without the distractions of many schools sending the recruit and his family into a feeling of being overwhelmed. Simple phrases like "Remember who thought enough of you to offer first," and vague "predictions" of what others will be like, plant seeds of trust in one and doubt into the others. Many coaches rely on a recruit becoming overwhelmed with the process, and just wanting it to end. Some of those actually "suggest" recruit is going to have that feeling,. They always seem to be there and offer gems such as, "We both know how to make it go away. Pledge to us, and inform all others you no longer wish to be recruited, and all the madness will stop." It might take some time, but for a handful of programs, this approach sees some success. Keeping the recruit then becomes a matter of good management skills and invested time. It is much easier to maintain a pledge, than to gain one!
A major tool many schools use to get recruits on campus early, is individual versions of a "Junior Day." Typically held in spring, this is the crown jewel for many programs to sell their school. Since there are only so many spring weekends, and many programs trying to woo recruits, getting recruit to accept invitation to their Junior Day, is seen as a major win. The word committment is used relative to the RSVP, for two reasons. First, schools create a sense of obligation to the school once accepted. Often times these kids are told there are a defined number of openings, and they are fortunate to have one, while others who might want to come do not. The word committment is also used as a means to have recruit associate the word, with that particular school and coach.
Once on campus, recruit has already qualified himself to be interested, so it is for this reason many schools set individual sessions up similar to closing deals on timeshares. The quicker a program gets kids on campus to show off their facilities, academic support, and innerworkings of how they would fit into the program, the more likely that school is to be the one all others are compared to.
It seems that even the upstart schools like Rutgers, invest quite a bit to ensure they announce date and secure kids for their Junior Day, and act before regional recruiting foes do. Landing just three or four of these kids per year can turn a program around in very short time.
For those who think recruiting juniors early on is over-rated, I beg to differ. PSU's list of attendees at Junior Day last year paled to that of Rutgers. Already Eric Shrive, an in-state top offensive tackle prospect from PSU's recruiting territory, has reportedly agreed to attend Rutgers Junior Day. It is further believed he will also attend Notre Dame's Junior Day, while PSU has yet to even announce the date for theirs.
To review, PSU does not give out offers to juniors before Letter of Intent Day for senior class, and has yet to announce a date for Junior Day. This while most all other programs are busy making their pitch to same recruiting targets, and getting regular visits from those staffs. In my opinion, expecting PSU to secure a top class for 2009 in these times of change, might be nothing more than wishful thinking. Penn State staff is still busy trying to finish this class, about three months behind programs already moving forward. Remember, "The early bird gets the worm!"
Most all people have heard the old adage that "The early bird gets the worm." USC already has verbal commitments from five of a perceived top 100 in 2009 recruiting class, and Ohio State already has 5 of their own pledges, with the possibility of adding at least one more before signing day of 2008. Verbals have also been received by other schools as well, and recruiting has become a year round process for most all coaching staffs.
Many coaches get in front of these blue chip prospects early on, and trying to develop a relationship with them. This at a time when their focus is without the distractions of many schools sending the recruit and his family into a feeling of being overwhelmed. Simple phrases like "Remember who thought enough of you to offer first," and vague "predictions" of what others will be like, plant seeds of trust in one and doubt into the others. Many coaches rely on a recruit becoming overwhelmed with the process, and just wanting it to end. Some of those actually "suggest" recruit is going to have that feeling,. They always seem to be there and offer gems such as, "We both know how to make it go away. Pledge to us, and inform all others you no longer wish to be recruited, and all the madness will stop." It might take some time, but for a handful of programs, this approach sees some success. Keeping the recruit then becomes a matter of good management skills and invested time. It is much easier to maintain a pledge, than to gain one!
A major tool many schools use to get recruits on campus early, is individual versions of a "Junior Day." Typically held in spring, this is the crown jewel for many programs to sell their school. Since there are only so many spring weekends, and many programs trying to woo recruits, getting recruit to accept invitation to their Junior Day, is seen as a major win. The word committment is used relative to the RSVP, for two reasons. First, schools create a sense of obligation to the school once accepted. Often times these kids are told there are a defined number of openings, and they are fortunate to have one, while others who might want to come do not. The word committment is also used as a means to have recruit associate the word, with that particular school and coach.
Once on campus, recruit has already qualified himself to be interested, so it is for this reason many schools set individual sessions up similar to closing deals on timeshares. The quicker a program gets kids on campus to show off their facilities, academic support, and innerworkings of how they would fit into the program, the more likely that school is to be the one all others are compared to.
It seems that even the upstart schools like Rutgers, invest quite a bit to ensure they announce date and secure kids for their Junior Day, and act before regional recruiting foes do. Landing just three or four of these kids per year can turn a program around in very short time.
For those who think recruiting juniors early on is over-rated, I beg to differ. PSU's list of attendees at Junior Day last year paled to that of Rutgers. Already Eric Shrive, an in-state top offensive tackle prospect from PSU's recruiting territory, has reportedly agreed to attend Rutgers Junior Day. It is further believed he will also attend Notre Dame's Junior Day, while PSU has yet to even announce the date for theirs.
To review, PSU does not give out offers to juniors before Letter of Intent Day for senior class, and has yet to announce a date for Junior Day. This while most all other programs are busy making their pitch to same recruiting targets, and getting regular visits from those staffs. In my opinion, expecting PSU to secure a top class for 2009 in these times of change, might be nothing more than wishful thinking. Penn State staff is still busy trying to finish this class, about three months behind programs already moving forward. Remember, "The early bird gets the worm!"
Penn State played this game already many years ago. We were good at it (at first) then when Seniors to be turned into busts and Juniors still developing blossomed PSU lost out. Remember when we told 3 QB's we'd only take 2 so hurry up (in April) it blew up in our face. The good classes the past few years have been the late additions. The biggest problem is if PSU gets a verbal and the kid has a bad year, PSU sticks with the kid...other schools don't. Ever notice that Texas is always signing 25-27 players a year! You can only have 85 on ship. Once you're on ship at State, it's honored unless you make some mistakes like not go to class, etc...If you don't perform on the field PSU will still stick by you - the classic "nice Guys finish last". I'm not in favor of getting on kids too early, but to say PSU doesn't identify kids when they are soph's or even freshmen is stupid. Notice how Bradley has known TP since he was a Freshman?! Same for DWill. PSU is in contact with certain kids VERY early they just won't pressure them with an offer to early. Might be the ONLY reason TP is still mentioning PSU, hell in the end could be why he commits, although few believe PSU is even in the mix.
Reply to this
What you've written above is imho one of the most glaring shortcomings yet least publicized aspects of Penn State's entire approach to recruiting.
And thoroughly examining that approach and refining it to meet the 21st century realities of CFB recruiting is just one of the changes I look forward to with a new regime.
Reply to this
No big deal...I'm sure we'll have a van load of kids from Huguenot in town for our junior day.
Reply to this
I hear Rotell just got an offer from the New England Patriots .. They think he is that good .. no joke
Reply to this
You mean Rotell is a person, not food? Damn I need to make a call.
Reply to this
does McQ get heat for this as well? Is this a Joe thing or a PSU systemic problem?
Reply to this
This is mostly on Joe.
Reply to this
nttnylyon - wasn't psu cricized heavily in the past for early offers and commitments? werent they the pioneer of early commitments? - sounds like in the past people didn't like it and now its en vogue.plus psu has given 3 offers per FOS - are they wrong and ur right?
Reply to this
nttnylyon is right... PSU used to try to lock recruits in very early in their junior years, which turned out to be a pretty bad approach... However, there should be a balance. The program has gone from one extreme to another.
Reply to this
Sorry, sorry, my bad. I meant sc was right. Brain fart.
Reply to this
PSU was the innovator of the early committment, you are correct. When is the last time you heard PSU staff and innovative in the same sentence? Keep in mind that early commitments used to be during May, June, and July. Times have changed, and if one does not keep up with the times, he is left behind.
Today, there is an unprecedented number of kids who pledge before signing day of the previous year. Reasons to do so vary, but many reference an unwillingness to go through the process they have seen others endure. I am not suggesting that staff should be closing out recruiting by June, but 5-7 key kids absolutely should be verballed by then. It takes a plan, and determination to be successful at doing so. PSU staff has yet to announce a Junior Day, so how much planning has been done, and effort exhausted?
I was never critical of staff for what was considered early offers, but rather to whom those offers were made. There are absolutely going to be misses in every class, no sane individual will argue that. Problem was PSU had a staff making early offers to kids, who many knew had absolutely no chance of ever seeing the two deep.
Many early offers back then, were based on how a kid looked in shorts and T-Shirt, while at camp the previous summer. Having been around football most all of my life, it is easy to say that working out in shorts, and in pads are two entirely different things. Of course you can determine athletic ability, quick feet, and even narrow shoulders. However, one cannot measure instinct, determination, and other intangibles while kid is in shorts.
Frankly staff tried taking shortcuts on many early offers, and paid the price for doing so. Instead of a clear recruiting plan, staff took the path of least resistance for many pledges, wanting to get overwith, part of the job some liked the least. Today with kids and coaches posting their video on youtube and such, better initial evaluations can be made, and obviously much earlier on in the process. Staffs are better able to evaluate recruits, before ever speaking to them. They can monitor their actions throughout the process, and even know who the competition is before going after the kid.
The Recruiting Coordinator position has steadily become a more important member of each staff. PSU currently has a guy in this position, who works circles around his predacessor. There are some coaching staffs, who even take on support personnel, tasked only to monitor the internet. They keep the RC up to speed on potential recruits, visits, offers, etc. Once again, a clearly defined and organized plan, with a method of implementation.
There is no reason PSU shouldn't have 10-12 committments for 2009 class by end of June '08. Any bets on whether it happens?
Reply to this
are you ignoring the offer to forcier? isn't he abig time qb they are on early and identified? - per FOS , they offered him along with some powers - auburn being one - id say thats early recruiting and identifying players of need
Reply to this
sc - PSU staff told Forcier that an offer would be coming after LOI Day. Big difference, a kid cannot commit without a written offer. If Tate had one on his visit, I believe he would have committed. Staff routinely allows the excitement to wear off, and enables other teams to move in.
Reply to this
We MUST get one recruit next year or I will freak out. That recruit is, Jelani Jenkins out of Maryland.
Reply to this
An early offer is not a problem if the recruit is a can't-miss. Example - Pryor. For 2009, maybe Newsome and Forcier. Doesn't matter what your most recent class does, you get on top of your top kids early. This policy doesn't make sense, and is hurting us.
Reply to this
Lyon-
Again, very well thought out post.
Loved the "narrow shoulders" combine reference, too. ;0)
Reply to this
This is all about establishing relationships. Starting early with junior days gives you a leg up on the competition in the recruiting race. PSU with its antiquated ways of recruiting shoots itself in the foot before the previous years class signs their LOIs.
By Feb 6 (LOI day) most top juniors will have attended multiple junior days at various schools across the country and begun establishing friendships and relationships with coaching staffs.
Meanwhile, come early February PSU will be scrambling to simply select a date for its first junior day. And once that day is finally selected the task of trying to convince kids to actually attend PSUs first junior day comes to the forefront. Other schools will inevitably have scheduled junior days on the same day as PSU and will have selected that day weeks if not months ago. Kids will have already committed to attend other schools junior days. Therefore the talent level attending PSUs first junior day will be paltry at best (as we have seen the past few years).
Again...PSU will be way behind the recruiting curve. And it will only be mid February. Then from there the recruiting snowball will gain momentum. The uncertainty at PSU will make it near impossible to attract top talent to PSU anyway. The uncertainty combined with the fact that PSU utilizes such prehistoric approaches to recruiting will be a deathblow for the class of 2009.
Reply to this
Well shoot, we better just shut done recruiting for 2009 now so no foolish junior makes the mistake of committing to PSU.
Reply to this
If no concrete announcements are made soon you won't have to worry about any 5 star type talent committing to PSU in 2009 anyway.
Reply to this
Hey I posted on this subject last night on FOS. Nice pick me up!
I think we need to make offers early to kids but we need to do our homework if we are gonna do that. As someone stated we used to do it really well then JayPa got lazy and started taking peoples words on kids instead of getting in there and getting to know who the kid is. That is what burned us not the fact we were betting on kids as juniors that never panned out.
Reply to this
lyon and stern,
great posts. Like you said, the recruiting game has drastically changed even in the last couple of years. HS kids have so much more exposure than they ever did before, from their own websites (who can say they did enjoy Quarless' video???), school website videos, and youtube just to a few ways kids get promoted these days. With increased exposure comes increased competition. It is amazing to think not only do schools already have their junior dates set, but already are starting to get visitors lined up. I would really like to know what Big Red and Bradley think of this. I am just rambling on at this point, but it just boggles my mind just how dysfunctional things are with the current PSU staff. But I guess that is what you get one you have an 81 year old coach. Most schools are happy when a coach visits a recruit and gives 100% in the recruiting effort while us PSU fans are just happy when our coach shows up at the Lasch building a couple of times a month to do his job. But hey, what do you want him to do, cut grass????
Reply to this
I just knew there was an ulterior motive for mentioning this.
Not complaining. I enjoyed it.
Reply to this
Certain special players are in fact contacted by PSU early on. TP, Connor, King, Williams, etc...Some that even committed elsewhere have been talked to when they were in 9th grade. We've even offered two or three already for next year. When #'s are low we tend to wait, when #'s are larger you'll see 7-9 kids in by June or July. I'll bet we have 7 by the end of June next year--probably including a QB. PSU has an awesome Junior day and kids will forego others to attend ours. This is really a little overblown at this point...people reaching to complain about something (IMHO). I would like us to finish out this class but they are already on their way of kicking off 2009 and that includes already contacting kids who are just now 9th graders. While Farrell is not my favorite kid to get a ship I can see him growing into a bigger body and using his athleticism to his advantage 2 years down the road. Look remember when everyone had a cow because Brown was moved to LT and Shipley was moved to C? The staff made the right call. Let's focus on keeping Lynn and Shaw as changes in staffs (ours and UM) have muddied the waters a bit.
Reply to this
When is PSU's Junior Day?
We are already behind. How are we going to have "an awesome Junior Day"? Last year's was also underwhelming and unproductive for that matter.
Reply to this
Obviously I am not an insider and know all the workings behind the scene, but it would surprise me that our staff doesnt keep track of upcoming freshmen, sophomores,and juniors. Kids they have on a watch list and get the word out to these schools and kids they are interested. I am not talking about offers to 10th graders but if a kid is special coaches at the HS level know how to promote their kids and get the word out. The real early commits by kids, like the QB Barkley to USC and a few others obviously before the recruiting even began most likely always dreamed of going to that school. In almost every sales situation you always want to be the last for your presentation to try and close the deal. Where is everyone getting the info that we are doing nothing proactive about recruiting? I am not saying I agree or disagree but give me some facts. Does MM just sit there all day? None of the coaches ever call or speak to recruits or high school coaches?
Reply to this
Golfer - Never said our staff was sitting around doing nothing (at least all of them). Problem is, we are still trying to fill slots in this class, and are a good three months behind most other programs. When this class is officially in place on LOI Day, guess what? We are three months behind on the class of '09.
Don't blame RC, he is a good soldier. One guy decides on everything that is PSU football, everything from Junior Day to what time pre-game meal is. And by the way, how many trips has he taken in last two recruiting years? If he is not going to be actively involved in recruiting, empower those that are.
Reply to this